中国高铁真的很先进吗?外国网友大讨论:得看跟谁比!

2019-06-25 20:04:14 来源: 黄山信息港

Answered by Paco Cabeza-Lopez:(upvote|74):Paco Cabeza-Lopez的回答(74赞):I have read all the answers so far but I cant see any of them providing a real answer to the question. Some answers confuse the size of Chinese fleet with technological development. Bigger doesnt necessarily mean better. We know that well in Europe.我看完了到目前为止所有对这个问题的回答,但是我还没有发现其中任何回答提供真正的干货。有些答案把中国高铁舰队的规模和中国高铁的技术发展混为一谈。规模更大并不一定意味着技术更好。在欧洲,我们可以很清楚地看到这一点。Certainly, how advanced depends on your own benchmark. For someone in the US, the Chinese High Speed (HS) network will be simply awesome. If your benchmark is France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Belgium or Japan, then I would say it is quite equivalent in most general instances except for one, probably the most important one, SAFETY (Ill get back to this in a minute).当然啦,有多先进取决于你采用什么样的参照系。比如对于一个身在美国的人来说,中国的高铁网络简直就是牛逼。但是如果你的参照系换成法国、西班牙、意大利、德国、比利时或者日本,那么我会说,在大多数情况下,中国高铁和他们旗鼓相当,除了有一点,或许也是重要的一点,安全(这一点我待会儿再讲)。I say quite similarly advanced simply because the Chinese have borrowed all technologies to make HS trains from the main European technological contractors. Simply look at the rolling stock running on the Chinese networks. Most of the trains are exact copies of the original Alstom, Siemens, Bombardier (rails division based in Germany, not Canada) Ansaldo and a few Japanese Shinkansen models. (Partially or completely) built in China but exact copies of the European/Japanese marvels.我说它们几乎是一样的先进,纯粹是因为中国人用来建造高铁的所有技术,都是从几个主要的欧洲技术承包商那里借来的。这一点你只需要看一看,目前正运行在中国高铁系统的轨道机车车身就可以知道了。大部分的车身都是原封不动地复制了阿尔斯通、西门子、庞巴迪(它的铁路部门总部在德国,而不是加拿大)、安萨尔多和一部分新干线的原始模型。车身(部分地或者完全的)在中国生产制造,但是完全是欧洲/日本生产商的杰作的翻版。译注:来源 / 百度百科;阿尔斯通:法国公司,世界五百强排名448,阿尔斯通是全球交通运输和电力基础设施领域的先驱;西门子:德国公司,西门子股份公司创立于1847年,是全球电子电气工程领域的企业;庞巴迪:加拿大公司,庞巴迪是一家总部位于加拿大魁北克省蒙特利尔的国际性交通运输设备制造商;安萨尔多:意大利公司,是一家拥有150多年历史、全能型的工业公司,拥有悠久的重工业研发及制造的历史,目前是全球的综合机电工程公司之一。CRH1 train models are Bombardier/Ansaldo ZefirosCRH2 train models are Japanese ShinkansensCRH3 train models are Siemens ICE3 modelsCRH5 train models are Alstom PendolinosEtc, etc.CRH1列车模型是庞巴迪/安萨尔多的Zefiro型列车CRH2列车模型是日本新干线型列车CRH3列车模型是西门子的ICE3型列车CRH5列车模型是阿尔斯通的Pendolinos型列车等等。。。(译注:CRH 全称为China Railways High-speed,中文字面意为中国铁路高速。CRH1即为和谐号CRH1型电力动车组)It is true that now China is able to make HS trains almost by themselves, but previous agreements with suppliers suggest they still pay royalties for every model they produce (or at least they should). And in no case, the Chinese may claim these trains as Chinese technology. Period.确实,如今中国已经能够完全靠自己的能力来建造高铁了,但是根据此前与供应商达成的协议推断,他们仍然要为自己制造的每一辆车身支付专利使用费(或者至少是他们应该支付)。所以无论是在哪一种情况下,中国人都没有资格宣称他们的高铁是中国技术。这部分说完了。Now, lets go to the safety part.现在,让我们回到关于安全的部分。Any country may have the fastest, superfanciest trains they can, but you need a signaling management system that goes with it and that guarantees no accidents while optimizing headways (ie, to get your return on investment operators place trains as fast as possible and as close to each other as possible in total SAFETY): in Europe, with ERTMS, we can place trains at 350 km/h every 3 minutes in a way that if one needs to stop to halt, the next one will do so without crashing into the previous one, in total safety. Of course this is not easy and needs its own planning, development and investment.每个国家都可以建造他们认为的快速、豪华的列车,但是你必须有一个信号管理系统来相配套,这样才可以保证在不出事故的前提下优化列车行驶速度(例如,为了回收投资,在总体安全的情况下,经营者会将列车设置在尽可能快的速度下行驶,并且设置前一趟列车和后一趟列车的间距尽可能的短一些):在欧洲,通过ERTMS,我们能够把列车速度设置成每隔3分钟切换至350 km/h一次,通过这种方式,一旦前一趟列车需要紧急制动,那么后一趟列车将会采取同样的方式来避免撞上前一趟列车,这样就可以保证总体安全。当然要做到这一点不是那么容易的,这需要相关人员计划,发展和投资。ERTMS stands for European Rail Traffic Management System. Basically, to make the long story short, the Chinese have adapted (or taken) ERTMS and called it CTCS, which stands for, you guessed it, Chinese Train Control System. ERTMS comes in 3 levels, 1 being the least advanced and 3 being a pure moving block system (trains talk to each other permanently and report their position in real time, no signals needed). CTCS also comes in 3 levels, with CTCS2 somehow equivalent to ERTMS1, CTCS3 equivalent to ERTMS2 and, CTCS1 equivalent to, mmhhmm, non-safe Automatic Train Protection System (ATP). Lets try to elaborate a bit further:ERTMS 代表欧洲铁路运输管理系统。长话短说,总体上,中国人已经改编(或者说 采取)了ERTMS,然后改了个名字叫做CTCS,意思是中国列车运行控制系统。 ERTMS分3个等级,其中1级是落后的,3级是指纯移动闭塞系统(列车之间互相保持持续稳定的信息传输,并且实时报告各自的位置,不需要信号控制)。CTCS同样分3个等级,但是不知怎么搞地,CTCS2等同于ERTMS1,CTCS3等同于ERTMS2,CTCS1等同于,额额额。。。,非安全的列车自动防护系统(ATP)。我再努力说得详细一点:CTCS 1 is a non-safe ATP system improved by some trackside data reading from a Eurobalise via packet 44. CTCS1 is not used for HS trains because it is designed for maximum speeds of up to 160 km/h. You may find this outside the HS network.CTCS 2 makes use of ERTMS type data packets but big difference the system does not read a Movement Authority (MA) from the Eurobalise as we do in Europe. Instead, the MA is computed by the on-board unit combining trackside data from the Eurobalise with a track circuit code indicating the number of blocks ahead free. Putting your safety in a track circuit may not be the wisest of the ideas, as the Wenzhou train collision on 23 July 2011 proved, with 40 people killed after a heavy storm with lightning hit the area of the accident and made the track circuit fail.CTCS 3 is the highest end Chinese ATP system capable of dealing with speeds up to 380 km/h with a similar ERTMS 2 type architecture and comprises Radio Block Centers (RBC) and a GSM-R radio communications infrastructure and on-board data radios.CTCS 1是指非安全的列车自动防护系统,它是从欧洲标准查询应答器通过packet 44读取的轨道数据改进而来的。CTCS1不是用于高铁系统的,因为它是为速度不超过160 km/h的列车设计的。你在高铁网络系统之外的铁路系统中也可以发现它。CTCS 2使用ERTMS类型数据包,但是,有很大的不同,CTCS 2无法像我们欧洲这样读取来自欧洲标准查询应答器的行车许可模块数据。取而代之的是,中国的行车许可模块数据是由车载单元综合两方面的数据计算而来的,一方面是来自欧洲标准查询应答器收集的轨道数据,另一方面是来自轨道电路编码指示的前方道路是否通畅的数据。将你的人身安全置于一个轨道电路之上,可能不是所有的方案中明智的那一种,正如发生在2011年7月23日的温州火车相撞事故证明的那样,那次事故导致40人死亡,起因就是事发区域出现雷暴天气,导致轨道电路发生故障。CTCS 3是中国等级的列车自动防护系统,能够应对速度达380 km/h的列车,采用和ERTMS 2等级类似的架构,包含无线闭塞中心(RBC),GSM-R无线通信设施和车载数据无线电通信。In other words, and in response to the question asked, Chinese HS rolling stock (trains) are as good as European and Japanese counterparts but I would only trust a Chinese HS ride on a CTCS3 equipped network (and would try to skip CTCS2). Would never ride on a CTCS1 line (this one not supporting HS traffic). Today, only the CTCS3 signaling system in China is up to the European and Japanese standards.换一句话说,可以这样回答上面提出的这个问题,中国高铁系统的轨道机车车身,和欧洲或日本的同行一样好,但是我只会信任运行在装备了CTCS3标准网络上的高铁(或许会尝试一下CTCS2),但是不会乘坐一条CTCS1线路列车(CTCS1根本就支撑不起高铁交通运输)。当今,在中国只有CTCS3信号系统才可以比肩欧洲和日本的标准。
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